How Much Accuracy Means Cheating

1. An independent body does not exist yet. It cannot be started by any single of the chess servers, otherwise it would not be independent.
2. For this independent body to be of any use at all, it would have to have expertise about cheat detection in *online* chess on the same level as the chess servers. If it did not, no chess server would recognize said independent body.
3. It is not clear to me where this expertise would come from in an independent body.

@anonmod said in #51:
> 1. An independent body does not exist yet. It cannot be started by any single of the chess servers, otherwise it would not be independent.
> 2. For this independent body to be of any use at all, it would have to have expertise about cheat detection in *online* chess on the same level as the chess servers. If it did not, no chess server would recognize said independent body.
> 3. It is not clear to me where this expertise would come from in an independent body.

Great point. I hadn't thought of that yet.

Then again.. as I've said, this all seems completely hypothetical / aimed at solving a problem that doesn't exist.

This seems more about user trust than anything else.

@anonmod @Dr_King_Schultz @esmiro @GreviousOne @JacobHanini @Katzenschinken @Molurus @Nomoreusernames @odoaker2015 @ohcomeon_1
Thank you all soooo much for your replies.
I just dont understand @Molurus why did you come to forum and said "I know how they do it but I wont tell" you could just ignore the forum instead of saying that lol it caused a really big conversation

Anyway now I see more points of view

@ProvingAPoint said in #53:
> I just dont understand @Molurus why did you come to forum and said "I know how they do it but I wont tell" you could just ignore the forum instead of saying that lol it caused a really big conversation

I consider it entirely irrelevant to the conversation. Players don't need to know how cheat detection works. All they need to know is *that* it works.

It has been suggested that cheat detection isn't accurate or isn't accurate enough. That claim is not on me. It's on those who make that suggestion. I suggest you ask them, instead of the guy who disputes that claim.

This debate isn't about me, it never was.

@anonmod said in #51:
> 1. An independent body does not exist yet. It cannot be started by any single of the chess servers, otherwise it would not be independent.
> 2. For this independent body to be of any use at all, it would have to have expertise about cheat detection in *online* chess on the same level as the chess servers. If it did not, no chess server would recognize said independent body.
> 3. It is not clear to me where this expertise would come from in an independent body.

The points you mentioned can definitely be solved somehow. I can't say how, I'm not an expert. It is clear that specific problems need to be worked on. I don't have a perfect solution either. But where there's a will, there's a way. Mankind has already solved completely different problems. It will work here too. I would be optimistic.

@Molurus He is right at some points and you are right too. I just said that why did you come and say "I know but I wont tell ya"

@odoaker2015 said in #50:
> Don't you think there are many appeals every day? Of course I can't tell you the exact number. But let's say 200 a day. Not much for a site with 10,000+ players per day. Does Lichess have 200 moderators? One can probably doubt that. It is therefore only logical to assume that the moderators cannot keep up.

Oh, you don't know the "exact number"? No, you don't know any number. To put it differently: When you claim "there are too few mods for too many appeals" you are simply making stuff up.

> and the whole thing is so opaque.

This from the guy who claims stuff that he can't back up.

> I don't understand why there is so much resistance to it. What's so bad about chess sites being vetted and people being able to go to independent bodies if they feel they've been treated unfairly?

Of what use is an "independent body" if you don't have the slightest idea from which people to form it? You are making unreasonable demands but at the same time you don't want to spare any thoughts on if these are satisfiable in any way.

@odoaker2015
Btw people say that there are approximately 420mods

@Katzenschinken said in #58:
> Oh, you don't know the "exact number"? No, you don't know any number. To put it differently: When you claim "there are too few mods for too many appeals" you are simply making stuff up.
>
>
>
> This from the guy who claims stuff that he can't back up.
>
>
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> Of what use is an "independent body" if you don't have the slightest idea from which people to form it? You are making unreasonable demands but at the same time you don't want to spare any thoughts on if these are satisfiable in any way.

Jetzt komm mir nicht dumm. Das ist keine unangemessene Forderung. Das habe ich groß und breit erklärt. Ich weiß auch nicht genau wie Gerichte funktionieren, aber dennoch gibt es sie. Ich muss auch nicht wissen wie ein Auto funktioniert um es zu fahren. Und noch einmal: was ist falsch daran? Und das Schachseiten wie Lichess intransparent sind, ist offensichtlich. Es muss endlich damit aufhören, dass Schachseiten ihr eigenes Süppchen kochen, ohne das man dahinter steigt. Und meine geschätzte Zahl ist ja eher zu niedrig eingeschätzt. ich verstehe nicht, warum du mich so angreifst. Argumtiere in vernünftger Art und Weise und höre mit deiner Polemik auf!