To play chess perfect there are Stock, Houdini and ... Magnus? We should try to play creatively
None of those are perfect. If something has their elo, it means they are not perfect. Except me.
Actually, I disagree and agree. Perfect? If one of them beats the other, the beaten one isn't perfect. But safe chess is boring chess! Where's the art? The creativity? The halfsound sacrifices, the positional sacrifices (like nezhmetdinov's positional queen sacrifice). Human chess is only played sub 2400.
I saw a game from Mikhail Tal, where he slaughtered the opponent...needless to say the engine thought he sucked in that game...
One thing that I HATE with engines is their unrivaled ability to get out of a situation that not even a grandmaster can get out of...common openings are analyzed in such a way these days, I'm sure Anand has 20 different openings engine-checked 20 moves ahead!
And Carlsen is far from perfect, as shown in his game vs Play Magnus age 22 (I think it was). He was so sure a sacrifice would work, but unlike an engine, he didn't calculate all variations...he ended up settling for a draw.
I saw a game from Mikhail Tal, where he slaughtered the opponent...needless to say the engine thought he sucked in that game...
One thing that I HATE with engines is their unrivaled ability to get out of a situation that not even a grandmaster can get out of...common openings are analyzed in such a way these days, I'm sure Anand has 20 different openings engine-checked 20 moves ahead!
And Carlsen is far from perfect, as shown in his game vs Play Magnus age 22 (I think it was). He was so sure a sacrifice would work, but unlike an engine, he didn't calculate all variations...he ended up settling for a draw.
Even engines are far from being perfect...in 10 years today's strongest engines will get outplayed like a GM against a club player.
Doubt it, pita, the accuracy of every move in an engine is beyond human capability. Computers don't doubt, computers don't hestitate, they're cold, calculating machines. A line you may spend 1 hour calculating is calculated in 10 mins by an engine. The only thing limiting your engine is your CPU (Central Processing Unit/brain of the PC). If you got an engine on an old 86, you could probably beat the modern engines...put it on an i7, and be blown away.
Swindles, that's where creativity still survives no matter how "safe" you try to play. Once your pieces are outnumbered, safe play guarantees defeat, so it's time to go for a crazy sequence of moves to trick the opponent to blunder.
The Immortal Losing Game is considered the most awesome moment for both players: the one that lost because he managed to pull off a loooong list of swindles one after another to try to prevent the defeat, and the one who won, because he managed to avoid every single of them, no matter how well hidden they were and how tricky he had to play to twarth them and keep his advantage.
Look the game there:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Losing_Game
Beautiful
The Immortal Losing Game is considered the most awesome moment for both players: the one that lost because he managed to pull off a loooong list of swindles one after another to try to prevent the defeat, and the one who won, because he managed to avoid every single of them, no matter how well hidden they were and how tricky he had to play to twarth them and keep his advantage.
Look the game there:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Losing_Game
Beautiful
Or we could look at the mad max of chess, www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc4J2aI0GA
Now that's entertaining and human! An engine would probably accept all of them...except for the ones leading to a loss. DAMN YOU ENGINES!
Now that's entertaining and human! An engine would probably accept all of them...except for the ones leading to a loss. DAMN YOU ENGINES!
I think their are perfect moves, not perfect engines. I think if two players against each other, each of then has "infinite" elo, definiely, white WILL win. Because that White has the advantage of going first.
In the other side, tactics and creativity is just a bunch of calculations. The main aim is to distract people from calculating. Most of tactics, smart guys will sacrifice their big pieces (Queen, Rooks,etc) to get advantage. Creativity is to think strange, new moves to create traps.
Engines are just calculating moves, humans has an advantage: creative
In the other side, tactics and creativity is just a bunch of calculations. The main aim is to distract people from calculating. Most of tactics, smart guys will sacrifice their big pieces (Queen, Rooks,etc) to get advantage. Creativity is to think strange, new moves to create traps.
Engines are just calculating moves, humans has an advantage: creative
SirHerpington, I meant engines getting outplayed by other engines
oh yes, Pita, that's for sure. It won't be long until chess is "solved". One opening will dominate all, all the biggest players play it..and the world champion? The one who can memorize most.
I think, Adam, that 2 people both playing THE best moves in any and all position = draw.
For every move, there's a countermove, and to quote a great chess player: "Every move creates a weakness"...for both black and white.
I think, Adam, that 2 people both playing THE best moves in any and all position = draw.
For every move, there's a countermove, and to quote a great chess player: "Every move creates a weakness"...for both black and white.
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